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Analysing Christianity's Difficulties 
 
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Salvation

So many people with so many versions of how to be saved.  So who is right?
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Faith
So is faith just another word for blind acceptance?
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False Hope

Hope is a great emotion, but when it has heartbreak at the end, can that be helpful?
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 Quote
All great religions, in order to escape absurdity, have to admit a dilution of agnosticism. It is only the savage, whether of the African bush or the American gospel tent, who pretends to know the will and intent of God exactly and completely.

H.L. Mencken, Damn! A Book of Calumny, (1918)

 
 

  Recent discussion with Pete August 2006.

 

Peter.  Hi Mike,   As mentioned I was brought up Strict Catholic in a blue collar city (it was once known for Anthracite Coal Mining - something my Grandfathers did). It seems back in the early 60's we were blinded into accepting religion, mostly sin, guilt, and fear. The Catholic Church was very strict back then, my parents are still devout Catholics. I would never want to burst their bubble regarding their beliefs. The church never taught us Christianity in an intelligent manner. It was memorization and no questions asked. I remember when I was about eleven someone asked the nun what would heaven be like, she said, "we will all be around Jesus praying to him", I was very disappointed and of course felt guilty. I wanted to play baseball with my friends in heaven and have the prettiest girlfriend.

One thing about the church is if you do a search on the Web Site for "Catholic Doctrine" you will find a very intelligent presentation of the church's beliefs something we were never exposed to growing up.

Why am I a skeptic? A few reasons: (1) There was nothing in the teachings of Christianity that wasn't stated in prior religions (I haven't read the "Christ Conspiracy" but a summary, (2) The stories of Christ seemed to be more incredible when he died then when he was alive, (3) Contrary to what I was told Christianity did not grow because of the Holy Spirit within man, but through force and brutality and (4) if we had to create a god (and we did) we would have wanted a just, loving, and one who would have given us an eternity in paradise.

I look at Jesus Christ the way I look at Santa Claus there is no one on this planet who wishes both stories were true more then your truly.

On the other hand, I feel and even a few scientist feel that this planet is so complex it is hard to believe we just evolved. It would be nice to believe there is a creator.

One thing we do disagree on might be politics I sympathize to the far right. Here is a question, do you believe in integration among races, if so, when in history did integration excel? Thank you for your time.

 

G’day Pete

 Thanks for you comment.  Your point is not only a good one, but also a very profound one.  The cliché’s that roll off people’s tongues just don’t cut it when these sorts of problems arise.  Personally, I think that it is much easier to understand and appreciate the world in which we live without God.  If we are the result of random chance then this randomness explains the injustice we see much better.  The problem with the traditional ideas of God is that it raises more questions about why terrible injustice continues.

 

Even if we do live in a so called random world, then we still need to fight injustice.  Unfortunately, religion is often, not always, the source of injustice.  In

 

I’m still curious how you heard about the site and where you’re from.

 

Anyway, your story is interesting and I’d still like to know more.  Personally, I think everyone should write their story down and keep a record of it.  I admire people who can keep diaries.

 

You say it would be nice to believe there is a creator.  Well there may well be a or a number of so-called creators.  Either way it doesn’t really bother me.

 

As for our positions on politics.  Firstly, questions often reveal something about a person that many other characteristics do not.  I love questions and the more we ask the better we understand life.

 

I think disagreements are fine as long as we can agree that we have grounds for disagreement.  I get frustrated with people who disagree but have no basis for their disagreement.  Am I making sense?

 

You question is a good one and probably needs to be broken down even further.

 

Your question was “Do you believe in integration among races, if so, when in history did integration excel?” 

 

I am an idealist and also a pragmatist.  So I like to thing that as well as having dreams about a better life I also am practical about things.  I know only too well that it is difficult to find a so-called balance.

 

So I do believe in integration and see it as an ideal that has many benefits and advantages.  I am a person of Irish, Scottish, German and English family lines who lives in Australia, has adopted and integrated into a multicultural community.  So even though I am ethnically speaking, a European, I have adopted many of the Asian elements into our family’s way of life, both near and far East.

 

In terms of my own integration with races or cultures it has been successful.  Australia was founded on multiculturalism.  The first fleet of European ships contained 11 nationalities.  The country had two basic religious cultures in Protestantism and Catholicism at its foundations, which has grown further after the second world war.  Australia is the second most multicultural nation on the earth (per capita) and is in my estimation one of many success stories of historical integration.  There are no doubt, those who would disagree.  There have been and always will be problem groups and circumstances that happen.  Some people, regardless of their ethnicity, will always be badly behaved.

 

I have friends who were born in Persia (Iran), have come to Australia and have integrated and become wonderful Australians.  They still retain parts of their culture but at the same time have rejected many elements of it and adopted some of the Australia culture. 

 

Here are the words to one of our favourite anthems.  It encapsulates what Australia is in terms of being one nation with many cultures.

 

I came from the dreamtime from the dusty red soil plains
I am the ancient heart, the keeper of the flame
I stood upon the rocky shore
I watched the tall ships come
For forty thousand years I'd been the first Australian.

I came upon the prison ship bowed down by iron chains.
I cleared the land, endured the lash and waited for the rains.
I'm a settler.
I'm a farmer's wife on a dry and barren run
A convict then a free man I became Australian.

I'm the daughter of a digger who sought the mother lode
The girl became a woman on the long and dusty road
I'm a child of the depression
I saw the good times come
I'm a bushy, I'm a battler
I am Australian

[chorus]

We are one, but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We share a dream and sing with one voice:
I am, you are, we are Australian
I am, you are, we are Australian.

I'm a teller of stories
I'm a singer of songs
I am Albert Namatjira
I paint the ghostly gums
I am Clancy on his horse
I'm Ned Kelly on the run
I'm the one who waltzed Matilda
I am Australian

I'm the hot wind from the desert
I'm the black soil of the plains
I'm the mountains and the valleys
I'm the drought and flooding rains
I am the rock, I am the sky
The rivers when they run
The spirit of this great land
I am Australian

There are of course the horror stories of racial integration, like in Germany.  Then there are the problems in the middle East which, in my opinion, stem from the random and thoughtless moulding of single nations from multiple ethic groups.  You can’t just draw a line around a group of nations and hope to mould them into one cohesive nation overnight.  That will never work and will always have severe and long lasting problems attached to it.

 I could go on a lot more but will leave you with those few thoughts to chew over and respond to.  I will add the comments to the site in the next day or two.

 

Please keep in touch as I can see it will be profitable for both of us to continue this discussion.   Regards  Mike

 

 

 

 

Email me at mikesforum@tpg.com.au

   
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