John Smith and Elizabeth Large

I believe that this John Smith was not related to my Smiths; the purpose of this page is merely to record the information that I uncovered before I became convinced that he was not "my" John Smith.

Census records

3 Cambridge Terrace, Lewisham, London, 1891:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
Mary Haywood	Head	W	70	Living on own means	Wiltshire Perton Stoke
John Smith	Bro-in-law	W	70	Living on own means	Berkshire Wantage
Elizabeth Baxter	Niece	U	21		Gloucestershire E Leach
Caroline Johns	Friend	U	73		London
Frances Smith	Niece	U	40		Wiltshire Cricklade

There was a 78 year old John Smith died in Lewisham in the December quarter of 1899.

Mary Haywood's late husband was named Edwin.

12 Leamington Place, Cheltenham, 1871:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
Edwin Haywood	Head	W	47	Agent in Ales	Gloucestershire Cheltenham
Eliza Night	Housekeeper	W	45	Housekeeper	Worcestershire Evesham

Edwin Haywood married Mary Large at Tenterden in the June quarter of 1872. Mary was the widow of Robert Sheppard Large, who died at Marlborough, Wiltshire, in the June quarter of 1869, aged 43. Robert and Mary had married at Cricklade in the December quarter of 1849.

Malver Villa, East Wickham, Kent, 1881:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
Edwin Haywood	Head	M	57	Retired Traveller	Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Mary Haywood	Wife	M	60	Retired Traveller	Cricklade, Wiltshire
Frances Smith	Niece	U	30		Cricklade, Wiltshire

It is worth noting that in 1891 there was a 56 year old widow widow named Elizabeth Large, with unmarried daughters named Mary and Frances (aged 20 and 19 respectively), living at 1 Cambridge Terrace, Lewisham (next door to Mary Haywood's household).

The Elizabeth Baxter in Mary Haywood's 1891 household was the daughter of George Baxter, who married Mary Smith at Cricklade in the December quarter of 1867. At the 1881 census George and Mary Baxter were living at Neatherton, Fairford, Gloucestershire, and had five children: Elizabeth Jane (11), Alfred (9), George (7), Catherine (5) and Anne Maria (1). The first four of these were born at Eastleach, the youngest at Neatherton. George, who was born at Eastleach, was 36 years old. Mary was born at Cricklade; her age is given as 25, but this must surely be an error given that her daughter Elizabeth was 11. I believe that in fact this Mary was the eldest daughter of John Smith, born in about 1846, and therefore 35 rather than 25 in 1851. Elizabeth Baxter was thus John Smith's grand-daughter. She was actually a great-niece of Mary Haywood rather than a niece.

John Smith married Elizabeth Ann Large in Cricklade in the December quarter of 1845. Presumably Robert Sheppard Large was her brother, so that the spouses of John Smith and Mary Large (later Haywood) were siblings. I guess that makes it legitimate to describe John as Mary's brother-in-law.

St Sampson Parish, Cricklade, 1861:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
John Smith	Head	M	37	Carter	Berks Wantage
Elizabeth A. Smith	Wife	M	34		Wilts Cricklade
James Smith	Son	U	13	Ag Lab	Wiltshire Cricklade
Alfred Smith	Son	U	12	Ag Lab	Wiltshire Cricklade
Frances Smith	Daughter	U	10	Scholar	Wiltshire Cricklade
Anna M. Smith	Daughter	U	8	Scholar	Wiltshire Cricklade

High Street, Cricklade, 1851:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
John Smith	Head	M	28	Agr Labourer	Glorshire Cerney
Elizabeth Smith	Wife	M	25	Works in fields	St Mary's Cricklade Wilts
Mary Smith	Daughter		5	Scholar	St Mary's Cricklade Wilts
James Smith	Son		3	Scholar	St Mary's Cricklade Wilts
Alfred Smith	Son		2		St Mary's Cricklade Wilts
Frances Smith	Daughter		2 months		St Mary's Cricklade Wilts

The I.G.I. lists the baptisms of John and Elizabeth Smith's daughters Mary, Frances and Anna Maria at St Mary's Cricklade on 29/3/1846, 2/3/1851 and 17/4/1853 respectively. (There was also a Susan Smith, daughter of John and Elizabeth Smith, baptized at St Mary's on 1/8/1869; however, an 1871 census record shows this to be a completely different family.) Note that the 1851 census record above explicitly says that Elizabeth's birthplace is St Mary's Parish rather than St Sampson's; so we can presume that the Elizabeth Large baptized at St Sampson's on 26/1/1826 was a different person, and that our Elizabeth Large's baptism does not appear in the I.G.I.. Robert Sheppard Large's baptism also does not appear in the I.G.I..

I think that the John Smith in the above records could not possibly be the John Smith in the following 1871 record.

3 Little East Place, Lambeth, 1871:
Name	Rel	Status	Age	Occupation	Birthplace
John Smith	Head	W	49	Cooper	Wantage Berks
Agness Smith	daughter	M	15	No occupation	Clerkewell
Alfred Smith	Son	U	9	Scholar	Bermondsey
Andrew Smith	Son	U	7	Scholar	Bermondsey
Harriet Smith	Daughter	U	4	Scholar	Bermondsey

Conclusion

For this to be the same John Smith we would have to accept that he stopped being a carter and became a cooper, and that his 5 year old daughter Agnes was absent from his 1861 household for some reason. And because the son Alfred in the 1871 census record was born in Bermondsey in the September quarter of 1861, we would have to accept that the family moved from Cricklade to Bermondsey shortly after the 1861 census and that the first son Alfred died at this time.